The Offer Suite Reset: What You Think You Need vs. What Actually Works with Maggie Patterson
Courses, VIP days, retainers, digital products- oh my!
If your offer suite feels more like a jigsaw puzzle than a business strategy, this episode is for you.
I’m joined by Maggie Patterson, creator of BS-Free Business®, author of Staying Solo®, and host of three podcasts, to talk about what service providers really need in their offer suite to build a profitable, simple, and sustainable business. No hustling required.
We get into:
- Why most offer suite advice is built for hype, not real service businesses
- What to focus on when your capacity is limited (especially if you're a mom or caregiver)
- How to simplify your offers without losing income
- The truth about low-ticket products and how much they actually take to sell
- What real business freedom looks like when you build it on purpose
If your offers feel like they’re running you instead of the other way around, this convo is your permission slip to rethink it all.
Mentioned In This Episode:
Grab Maggie’s Book (seriously, it'll change your life): www.stayingsolobook.com
Listen to the Staying Solo Podcast www.bsfreebusiness.com/solo
Get Access to Staying Solo Stories (Private Podcast): ww.bsfreebusiness.com/sydney (This one’s full of behind-the-scenes stories from real solo business owners building businesses that actually fit their lives.)
Check out Duped: The Dark Side Of Online Business: https://duped.online/
Transcript
Sydney (she/her) (2): Do you ever
feel like, , everyone is telling you
2
:to scale and hustle harder and build
an empire when all you really want is
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:a business that pays well and still
lets you pick up your kid from school?
4
:Because same.
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:And that is why I could not wait
to interview Maggie Patterson.
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:Maggie is the creator of BS Free
business and the author of Staying Solo,
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:which is a book I absolutely devoured,
by the way, you have to read it.
8
:,
, Sydney (she/her): Maggie hosts two podcasts, staying solo and
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:Confessions of a micro agency owner,
and she also co-hosts the Consumer
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:Advocacy Podcast called Duped
the Dark Side of Online Business.
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:And if you have listened to any of
those, you know she's a powerhouse
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:when it comes to calling out toxic
marketing and building a business
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:rooted in actual integrity.
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:Sydney (she/her) (2): With 20 plus
years experience as a client-based
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:business owner, Maggie, helps service
providers build what she calls a boring
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:business, AKA profitable, sustainable,
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:And not built on chronic hustle.
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:She's one of the most honest, grounded
voices in the industry, and I am so
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:excited for you to hear this conversation.
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:Sydney (she/her): Maggie, for people that
don't know you, can you tell us a little
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:bit about your background and what you do?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So I actually
started my business 20 years ago and
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:it's had lots of twists and turns.
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:My background's in communications.
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:Um, I've done a lot of business
consulting over the years, and now I
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:run a company called BS Free Business.
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:I work with small business owners that
run service businesses, so they're
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:typically solo, like true solo business
owners doing consulting or creative work.
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:And then I also work with, um, some very
small, like what I call Mike Micro Agency.
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:So they're generally creatives
or professional service
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:providers that have a small team.
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:Sydney (she/her): Nice.
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:And what made you want to
work with solopreneurs?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): You know, it's
one of those things that I think there's a
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:couple things is that's how I started out.
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:Like I do have a team now, but the
majority of my clients are still
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:solo service business owners.
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:It is a really underserved market.
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:And um, you know, I know you've
been reading the book, I talk
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:about this a lot in the book, is
that like 80% of businesses in the
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:US or one person businesses yet
traditional entrepreneurship advice
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:is very, very much about like.
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:Shark tank level or having a brick
and mortar when the reality is most
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:businesses are one person, and most
businesses are service business owners.
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:And what I've really, really found is, um.
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:That's a really hard place to be
when you are, especially if you're
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:on, you know, in the internet,
on the online business world.
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:Like you start to feel less
than, you start to feel like
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:your business isn't legitimate.
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:Like, I have to grow, I have to
buy this really expensive coaching.
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:I have to do all these things.
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:So I want to be like the antidote
to that messaging to be like,
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:Hey, this is a legitimate choice.
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:It's what the majority of business
owners do, and like, let's talk about
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:how to make sure that you are not falling
into traps of burnout or not paying
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:yourselves or those types of things.
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:Sydney (she/her): I really love
that because it is so easy to
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:get caught up in those like the.
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:Bigger, , marketing messages around that
like grow and scale, which is all like
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:really great, but it's not super doable
for small teams or like solopreneurs.
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:And I feel like a lot of it is also
kind of misleading the way people make
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:certain claims about the , successes
they have had in online businesses.
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:So I have.
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:Been really enjoying your book and
the way it talks about all of that.
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:So highly recommend for anyone listening.
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:And you also mentioned in the
book that online business world
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:has gotten kind of culty which I
found to be really interesting.
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:Could you talk about
that for just a minute?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,
I mean I talk about this all
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:the time, but I'm always like.
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:sorry, I wish it wasn't this way.
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:But what we really see is, you know,
the same way we would see with like
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:multi-level marketing companies, or
we see in traditional cults we see a
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:lot of marketing and sales tactics,
influence tactics being used in a
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:way that is designed to shut down
your critical thinking, to convince
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:you this person has the answers
and essentially take your money.
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:And like something that we
would traditionally label as a.
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:Scam.
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:Like, you know, you've got some
friend who's selling some crypto
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:thing and you're like, oh no, no.
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:Um, we look at this a little
bit differently because business
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:owners are hardwired to be hopeful.
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:We are optimists like we are
like, Hey, I'm gonna be out here.
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:I'm gonna make my own way.
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:So we think, well, why couldn't it be me?
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:Why couldn't I make the all the money?
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:And we get really lulled
into this sense of, um.
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:That they have answers, that we
don't have answers, and the cultiness
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:comes in in terms of some of the
financial abuses that happen.
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:I hear these stories all the time and
it's, it's really way more prevalent.
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:Um, the commitment, the
way they want you to.
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:Do things you wouldn't normally do.
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:Like it's sometimes it's as simple
as a, something less culty, but
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:not a cult, per se, is you have
a business coach that's like, but
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:this is the only one way to do it.
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:Like there's one source of truth.
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:And that to me is where we have
to think like, Hey, you know what?
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:It's actually more nuanced than that.
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:I need more context.
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:I need to take in other things.
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:I need to think critically about
what's gonna work best for me.
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:And I think one of the things like
I know your audience is moms, um.
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:whether you're a mom or you're
neurodivergent or you're caring for,
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:you know, elderly parents, you are very
capacity conscious and a lot of the
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:business advice is not built for you.
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:And then when you combine it with
the culty part of it, that's where
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:it gets really messy and people start
to feel really bad about being able
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:to make money the way they've made
money and like, it's just not good.
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:Sydney (she/her): So I feel like, and
I, you've talked about this as well in
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:your book and also on your podcast that
I've also been listening to the, there's
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:kind of like these trends in offers
as well, like funnels and then courses
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:and then memberships and like this
promise of like scaling your business.
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:Is there a better way that people
with less capacity, like moms,
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:caregivers, neurodivergent people,
should be kind of focusing their
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:efforts when it comes to their
offers and building their businesses.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So this is
a really, really good question, and I
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:think the simplest answer is so many
of the things you just listed off, like
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:memberships and courses, they're not bad.
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:But they're not as simple
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:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): out to be.
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:And this is why I'm very pro services
like, you know, I think those offers can
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:be great if you have an audience, but
we don't talk about all the marketing
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:it takes to fill those things up.
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:They're like, create your membership.
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:You'll get a thousand members.
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:That's like a thousand Who,
like where are those people?
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:Where are we
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:Sydney (she/her): Right.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): from?
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:It makes no sense.
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:So, you know, for most people.
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:Sticking to services and being
really, really mindful about
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:like, what are my boundaries?
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:How many clients can I take on?
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:How do I communicate upfront
that this is how I work?
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:Maybe I don't jump, have
weekly calls with my clients.
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:You have a permission to slip
as a business owner to create
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:the business in a way that is
going to work for your real life.
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:And I always say to my clients
like, is that like they'll
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:tell me something, I'll go.
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:Is that gonna actually work
like for your actual life?
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:'cause you just finished telling me what
a train wreck all these things were like
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:because real life is happening around you.
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:So you know, if it's not working
for your real life, it's not
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:gonna work in your business.
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:Like, you just need to
be very, very honest.
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:And I mean, I've been through this
when I started my business, you
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:know, my son was home for quite some
time, then I had part-time daycare.
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:Then I had, you know, school hours.
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:I've gone through deaths of parents
caregiving, dealing with my own health.
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:Like there's always going to be things
in your life that are impacting your
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:capacity and you have to account
for them, and you cannot schedule
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:every single hour you have available
for work to do actual client work.
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:It just doesn't work that way.
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:Sydney (she/her): Right.
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:I love that you mentioned that.
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:I feel like it's very easy,
especially when now we're
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:existing so much and like the on.
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:Line world and seeing all of
these oh, you can have what I
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:have type of marketing posts.
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:It's very easy to get caught up
in that and then realize, no,
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:I, that's not gonna work for me.
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:I can't quite have that.
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:Especially when you mention like
filling those memberships, which
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:would be lovely to have all the
thousand people, but I think it.
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:It's pretty eye-opening when I
talk to people, when I talk to
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:them specifically about Instagram.
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:'cause that's what I
do Instagram marketing.
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:But talking about like the realistic
conversion rates of that, I'm like,
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:not every single follower is gonna buy.
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:It's like a very, very small percentage.
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:And even for like email,
it's pretty small.
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:I think we need to have some
realistic expectations there.
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:Both as business owners, but also
when we kind of consume marketing
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:for other services and like
business coaches and all of that.
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:Something to keep in mind for sure.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): I'm glad
that you brought that up because I
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:refer to this as like the , audience
growth grift, because it's this idea
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:of like, it should be so easy, like
every five, 10,000 followers I'll
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:have 10,000 clients and it's like no.
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:The reality is, is probably maybe
like 20 of those people, or like 30 of
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:those people at the most are gonna buy.
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:You have to have the right offer.
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:Like, and I think we like membership's.
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:Such a great example 'cause
it's so hyped up right now.
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:Um.
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:If you have very limited capacity
and you're like, I can only work
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:12 hours a week because it's
when my kids are in preschool.
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:Well, you have to deliver
everything in the membership.
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:You have to do all the marketing.
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:There's the community management.
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:Uh, there's so many elements
we're not thinking about.
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:We're just seeing the path to, oh,
I'm gonna make $10,000 a month.
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:Super easy.
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:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
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:And then if you don't have enough people
in the membership, it's not not worth
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:it all the time you're putting into it.
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:Yeah.
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:You're not making that money back.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
Yeah, I mean I've
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:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): um, you
know, hope and a dream and I was
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:like, Yeah, no, that's not actually
gonna be profitable at $37 month.
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:Sydney (she/her): exactly.
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:Now, like you said, my
audience is mostly moms.
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:There are people kind of working
in like the, the cracks of the day.
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:'cause a lot of us have like young
kids that are home during the day.
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:What do you think they should actually
be thinking about when building their
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:offer suite with that kind of capacity?
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:Are there like certain offers
that are better than others?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So, you know,
I think it's a really good question.
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:It's gonna depend on skills, experience,
who your clients are, but I think there's
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:a few things for service providers that we
need to focus on more is number one thing.
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:Generally when people come to me
and it seems really, really simple,
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:and they're like, most service
providers are undercharging.
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:So you're just like, 'cause you
start your business and you're like,
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:okay, I've got 12 hours a week.
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:I'm just gonna kind of cram
it into the pockets of my day.
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:Maybe I'm gonna, you know, takes into
swimming lessons on Saturday morning, I've
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:got that three hours, and you're just kind
of cramming it in and you're like, you're
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:just happy to make anything you can make.
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:Right?
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:And then your pricing is just like, not.
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:Really reflecting your skills, your
talents, your experience, uh, the
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:value you deliver to your clients.
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:So always looking at your pricing
for your offers and not just
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:settling to be like, you know what?
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:Well, this is just easy.
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:Well, you know what?
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:It's better to have two clients
paying you way more money than five
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:clients who are underpaying you.
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:So I think that's the first
thing you always wanna look at.
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:And one of the things I see with
pretty much every service provider
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:is they're giving away a lot of
strategic thinking that needs to be
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:charged for, that needs to be in a
different way than tactical work.
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:So I'll give you an
example with Instagram.
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:Like if you're doing a strategy for
someone, like you're doing an audit,
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:a review, and you're making really,
you know, a content strategy for them,
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:that's very different work than you
sitting down and creating captions or
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:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So when
you think about that, you know, how
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:do you charge accordingly for that?
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:And I call it selling the sell
the strategy, because we tend
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:to merge those all together.
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:And then we put ourselves in this
very executional tactical mode
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:when we're actually doing really
strategic work for our clients.
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:Sydney (she/her): that's
a really great point.
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:Um, so if there are mom business owners,
'cause something I'm hearing a lot
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:from people that I work with who are,
typically service providers as well.
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:They're creating, like a lot of
low ticket like digital products.
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:'cause that's also like
a big thing right now.
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:So they have like lots of those
and they're feeling like really
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:overwhelmed with their offer suites.
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:What do you think the
best way is to simplify?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Okay.
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:So like digital products, something
you're selling at 37 or 97, like
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:do sit down and do the math.
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:How much time does it take
for me to create this?
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:How much time does it create for
me in marketing it like, and if you
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:look at standard conversion rates,
which you kind of alluded to a couple
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:Sydney (she/her): Hmm.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): ago, we're
talking about one to 3% of your audience.
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:So for every, and that's if
your thing is really dialed in.
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:It's solving a really specific problem.
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:It's, you know, just hitting those
points and people are like, yes, I
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:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So
you've gotta look at, you know.
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:For me to make a thousand dollars at 97,
I've now gotta sell that to 10 people.
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:You know, how much work do I
need to do to make that happen?
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:Or could I have $1,000 a month client?
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:That's way simpler, way less work, and
like way more predictable than trying to.
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:Grind it out.
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:And I think low ticket products are
really, really, really appealing.
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:But they're really hard.
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:Like I have been doing ever.
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:I've done like every type of thing
under the sun over the last 20 years.
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:And I will say those are the hardest for
me to sell and continue to be even with
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:an audience, even with multiple podcasts,
even with all the, you know, podcasts,
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:collaborations, things I do like, I do
a lot of marketing and those are still
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:really challenging to sell because.
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:Some people don't wanna do it themselves.
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:They want you to do it with them
and let those people give you money.
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:Sydney (she/her): I love that perspective.
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:It's something I'm certainly leaning
into more as I'm having these
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:own realizations in my business.
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:Like, man, I'm, I'm doing a lot right now
and need to, need to adjust things so I.
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:Definitely came across your, your book
at like the right time for me personally,
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:and I'm really excited 'cause I know
I've talked to a lot of other business
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:owners that are in the same boat, so
I'm really excited for them to hear this
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:and, and get that information as well.
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:You've also said that complexity
is the enemy of sustainability.
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:So if people right now are
listening and wondering like, if
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:I cut things, will I lose money?
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:Can you.
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:Talk a bit about how doing
less can actually lead to more.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Okay.
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:It is the classic.
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:80 20 rule.
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:You know, we hear this all the time.
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:of things is not what's
getting us with routes.
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:It's the 20%.
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:So figuring out, like, you know, you
were talking about the low ticket offers.
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:If I have five low ticket offers,
I am now dividing all my focus.
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:I, everything's getting a
little bit of my attention.
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:What if I just had one?
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:And I really, really committed to that.
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:if you have five services.
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:What's the one service
that I know is profitable?
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:I can deliver the capacity I have
that people easily say yes to.
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:It feels, you know, it feels like
it's in the sweet spot of what
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:my clients want and what I wanna
be doing with my time and energy.
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:You know, looking for the simplest
things because we really start to think
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:about like more is better and actually.
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:The simplicity of having less offers
means less marketing, less sales, less
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:cognitive load for you, less decisions.
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:Um, and I think we really.
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:Most entrepreneurs, most
people start businesses.
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:We have lots of ideas.
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:We're very creative.
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:We wanna do all the things.
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:And just learning to have the
discipline to say, you know what?
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:I'm going to, I'm gonna give
this service, I'm gonna give this
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:offer the best possible result.
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:So I'm going to really focus in on that.
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:And what I find when you do That is.
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:That's when things really start to hum
versus being like, oh, you know what?
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:I've got five offers and they're
getting a little bit, and nothing's
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:working really, really well, and I
made two sales here, three sales there,
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:and you're kind of like scraping by.
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:I think being okay with like
short term loss of money for
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:longer term gain is the way to go.
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:Sydney (she/her): That makes a ton
of sense, especially now I'm hearing
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:and seeing people are needing more.
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:Of those like touch points before buying,
so sticking with something longer that
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:you already know is working rather
than constantly switching up would
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:also be helpful in that aspect as well.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,
and people are often surprised when
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:I tell them things like, Hey, my
core offer at BS free business,
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:I've been selling for nine years.
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:And yes, it's shifted and you know,
we've done these little resets and
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:refinements along the way, but the core
of the offer is the same, and that's
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:what I've been able to become known for.
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:Whereas what happens with people
is you are, if you're constantly
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:like, I'm talking about TikTok,
I'm talking Instagram, I'm talking
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:about this, I'm talking about that.
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:Like, it's really hard
for people to keep up.
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:They're not moving as
fast and it's not sticky.
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:You want to be, you know, like Sydnee,
you wanna be known for Instagram.
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:So if you're all of a sudden like,
Hey, I'm gonna, I'm interested in
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:Pinterest, all of a sudden, like,
you are now diluting your brand and
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:you're doing yourself a disservice.
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:Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's super true.
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:another thing we see a lot of
on like online marketing is like
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:this idea of freedom in business.
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yes.
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:, Sydney (she/her): But when we
build businesses that kind of like.
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:Don't give us freedom because we're kind
of adhering to all of these other things
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:that we talked about with like scaling
and you know, these trending things.
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:What do you think building true
freedom actually looks like when
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:you're designing your offers?
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:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
This is such a good question.
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:I mean, there's a lot of facets
to this, but I think when
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:you think about your offers?
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:the first thing you need to
basically acknowledge is.
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:And I, I say this
constantly to my clients.
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:They're like, oh, I
wanna start a bookshop.
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:I'm like, but do you really like if
you are going to work for yourself, uh,
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:is this the the best possible version?
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:I'm not talking about fantasy world
where you're making millions sitting
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:on the beach, because That's not real.
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:If I'm going to do work, like, you
know, if I'm a designer and I wanna
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:be a copywriter, 'cause I used to
do both an agency, like why am I
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:doing design if I wanna do copy?
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:Being very, very clear about like,
what are my marketable skills?
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:Do I wanna be doing this?
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:That is a really good place to
start because it is really hard
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:to feel any sense of freedom
when you hate what you're doing.
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:So, you know, what is the most acceptable
version of work if I have to work?
380
:Because the reality is, is
most of us do have to work.
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:We are not independently wealthy.
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:So I think starting there and
then also recognizing freedom
383
:is not necessarily like, I'm not
working, I aren't doing this.
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:It's like freedom to be
flexible with your schedule.
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:Freedom to not have to like
respond really quickly.
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:So it starts with really
little things like boundaries.
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:Communicating those to your
clients, reinforcing those with
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:your clients, making sure you're
not over-delivering that, you know,
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:you're not constantly in scope creep.
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:Um, and a lot of this is gonna, and I
I'm always reticent to say this, a lot
391
:of this is gonna come down to a lot
of practice and also just the mindset,
392
:like am the owner of my business
and I don't work for my clients.
393
:It's the collaboration.
394
:And that everything is up for negotiation.
395
:And if clients can't respect,
like, Hey, you know what?
396
:I have to leave at three o'clock
to pick up my child from preschool.
397
:not gonna be the right
fit for you as a client.
398
:Sydney (she/her): That's super true.
399
:I love that you mentioned the
small, like bits of freedom, like
400
:being able to take your time,
responding and things like that.
401
:I feel like that's something, uh, kind
of take for granted and or like look
402
:over really as freedom instead of what
we, what I see a lot online being.
403
:On Instagram all the time of like, oh,
I'm making sales from like this resort
404
:while I'm like doing nothing, sitting
by the beach and stuff like that.
405
:It doesn't always look like that.
406
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
No, and I think you've gotta
407
:remember that all of that.
408
:is designed to be
409
:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
410
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
They're selling you a dream and
411
:that dream is not a, not real.
412
:Like, I hate to say I have an entire
podcast called Duped, where we go
413
:into all of this because that is a,
a ploy to get you to buy something.
414
:And I think one of the things, you
know, I always think back like my
415
:son's 21 now, but when he was in school
and I would have to adjust my hours.
416
:I would send an email at the beginning
of June and say, Hey everyone, I'm
417
:now moving to my summer schedule, and
that means you may find me working at
418
:non-traditional times, like, I'm not
gonna be working between nine to three.
419
:I might be working at 8:00 PM
Like I will respond to you within.
420
:And I think freedom to communicate those
things and have your clients respect that.
421
:That meant I could go to library,
I could go to the pool, I could
422
:do what I want and not feel like I
was being fractured all the time.
423
:And that.
424
:be very different in different
seasons of your life.
425
:But I think those boundaries there and
communicating 'em really clearly is the
426
:first step to that and is something you
would need to consistently be doing with
427
:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
428
:I love that you mentioned that.
429
:I literally have like in my email
signature, I might respond outside of
430
:normal working hours, but do not feel the
pressure to respond right away or like
431
:outside your own normal working hours.
432
:Because a lot of the times, yeah, when
my kids are home, I'm like writing emails
433
:at like 9:00 PM and things like that,
but I'd never want other people to feel
434
:like they need to do the same, to like
keep the conversation going or anything.
435
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): And this
is why I'm a huge fan of Send Later,
436
:Sydney (she/her): Mm.
437
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): like
I would write things at God knows
438
:what time, and then I'd just be
like, I magically go out at 8:32
439
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's
a really, that's very smart.
440
:I don't know why I never thought
of that, but I'll have to use that.
441
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): I,
I don't want anyone to think
442
:I'm actually working at nine.
443
:If I, if I was
444
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah,
that's a good point.
445
:Like, don't expect me to stay up
late working on your, your stuff.
446
:Yeah.
447
:Now I also have seen this kind of
belief, , that if we are not like working
448
:on scaling or growing, growing your,
your business is kind of like stagnant.
449
:So what would you say to like
the mom business owners who are.
450
:Hitting their income
goals but not scaling.
451
:I guess I'm just gonna
keep using that term.
452
:Who might feel like she's doing something
wrong because it's not what everyone else
453
:is talking about or doing in business.
454
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So I
talk about this a lot in the book,
455
:and I'm sure you've been into that
section by now, but you know, there's
456
:a difference between growth and scale.
457
:And I come, I've, my background's in tech
communications and we talk about tech
458
:companies scaling, like that's true scale.
459
:Like, and what it means to scale
is I am making more and more
460
:and more of my money without.
461
:At Capital Investment, the way scale
is used, and this is, I'm such a words
462
:person, but it annoys me to no end
The way that this is a misused term.
463
:The majority of what businesses
are doing in the online business
464
:realm and what they're talking
about, it's not scale, it's growth.
465
:Number one, is not something that most
businesses are ever going to really
466
:achieve, uh, as a solo business owner.
467
:So if you're making $5,000 a
month and you're like, I'm good.
468
:That's okay.
469
:Like there's nothing wrong with
that because I think the one thing
470
:that happens, you get kind of,
it chips away at you over time.
471
:And the reality is, is like most of your
friends are looking at you going, I'd
472
:like to make $5,000 a month and have
a flexible schedule, or whatever that
473
:number is, and then getting really clear
for you, like, what is that number?
474
:What is enough?
475
:for some people that's might
be a thousand dollars a month.
476
:For some people that
may be $10,000 a month.
477
:It's not about the number.
478
:It's what that number means to you
and your family and for your life.
479
:And there's no magic number that makes you
more or less legit as a business owner.
480
:So I, you know, so many times
I talk to people and they're
481
:like, I'm just making it.
482
:I'm like, do you know you make
more than most business owners?
483
:They're like, what?
484
:Like people have totally lost the plot.
485
:So just know that whatever
you're doing is good enough and
486
:you need to figure out what.
487
:What that enough number is
for you and plan from there.
488
:It's totally normal to wanna
grow, but growing is not doubling
489
:your business every year.
490
:Sometimes it might be, Hey, you know what?
491
:I have a client 10%
less and made 11% more.
492
:That was a win.
493
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's a big win.
494
:And you kind of mentioned this,
and I know you mentioned it in your
495
:book, but the amount of money solo
business owners make isn't as much.
496
:Like, it's not a ton.
497
:So if you're not fe, if you feel like
you're not hitting those like 10 K
498
:months or whatever, you hear everyone
hear everyone like talking about or
499
:bragging about online they're, they're
not, it's like the actual number was
500
:what was like 39,000 or something.
501
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
I think it's like $46,000.
502
:In the US naming, it varies by
country, but there is consistent
503
:research that shows a few things is
number one, the majority of businesses
504
:never make a hundred thousand dollars
505
:Sydney (she/her): Hmm.
506
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Like,
and that's, that's just the numbers.
507
:Bear that out.
508
:Especially if you're a woman, a
woman owned business, especially if
509
:you are a woman of color, like those
numbers go down and down and down.
510
:So, and that's not to say you can't
defy that and do better than that.
511
:But also like when someone says,
oh, I'm making 10 KA month.
512
:Just know that they maybe
10 made 10 K one month.
513
:And maybe it's 'cause clients
all pay their invoices at once.
514
:Like I've had some really
big months in my business.
515
:But if I was to sit down and tell
you all the reasons those happened.
516
:And what was happening on either
side of that, it would, you would
517
:be like, oh, so just know people
are a little fast and loose with
518
:how they talk about their numbers.
519
:And that's why, to me, as a consumer,
I look at anyone who's using, um,
520
:an income claim to say, I made
this and I can teach you too.
521
:Or, you know, I, you are gonna
make $10,000 a month or whatever.
522
:I, I approach that with a lot of
skepticism and I don't do business
523
:with those people because I don't
wanna be deceived in that kind of way.
524
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah,
I feel the same way.
525
:I.
526
:I feel like so many people are
making those income claims online
527
:now, and every time I see it, I've
just kind of cringe a little bit.
528
:Um, and just because you like that,
not you specifically, sorry, that
529
:person did it for like their business,
doesn't mean they can necessarily
530
:get you those exact same results.
531
:Because like you said earlier,
there's a lot of nuance, um, in
532
:everyone's situation and, and
considerations and things like that.
533
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah.
534
:and there's never, there's
never the full story.
535
:And you know, like I, you think of some
of the biggest names in the online space.
536
:Like, they're like, oh,
I've made $32 million total.
537
:Yeah, they started in 2011.
538
:It was a very different world.
539
:Like I remember that world.
540
:Facebook ads were like a dollar,
like that's not reality now.
541
:And I think especially now in 2025,
like we are navigating a lot of things
542
:we don't have a playbook for in terms
of the economy, the geopolitical
543
:situation, there's constant crisises.
544
:You know, people are very
conscious about their budget.
545
:'cause you know, if you've been to
buy anything at the grocery store,
546
:you know what that looks like.
547
:So your business is now operating against
all of those things in the background.
548
:So what worked even a year ago
is going to shift and change.
549
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's super
important to keep in mind right now.
550
:There's, there's a ton, ton
going on, um, and it definitely
551
:affects, um, buyer behavior.
552
:So, definitely don't feel bad if
your months look different than they
553
:used to, or you're not getting those
10 K months that you see online.
554
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,
and I think the reality is is
555
:I actually wrote an email to my
list this morning about this.
556
:It's like, yes, it's the economy,
but there's not, there's a lot of
557
:other factors and what we all have
to look at as business owners is,
558
:okay, here's the bigger backdrop, and
you can choose, like you can just.
559
:Be like, oh, it's the economy,
and be okay with that.
560
:Or you can start to look at things
very strategically in your business.
561
:Friends, I'm 20 years in, I have had
to do a lot of soul searching and a lot
562
:of little refinements, little resets
in my business over the last year
563
:to continue to stay relevant and to
continue to, you know, hit the numbers
564
:I have been able to consistently hit
565
:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
566
:Yeah, that's a really great point.
567
:, If someone's listening right now and
they're feeling just like completely
568
:stuck in like that huy version of their
business where they're just spending
569
:all their time, um, and not getting
much return, what is the first thing you
570
:would want them to like do or rethink?
571
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
I want them to go back to the
572
:very, very, very beginning and.
573
:If you are in a situation, let's say you
have a service and I'll use Instagram
574
:'cause that's what you do, Sydnee is maybe
you're doing Instagram consulting or you
575
:know, social media management, you know,
and you are not able to get traction.
576
:Maybe you're getting, you know,
I start to diagnose the problem.
577
:Do I have anyone that's
actually interested?
578
:No.
579
:Okay, so that's telling me a few things.
580
:Maybe I have a messaging problem, maybe
I'm not talking about the right problems.
581
:Maybe I need to position
myself like more of an expert.
582
:Um, maybe I'm not doing enough marketing.
583
:That's a really common one I see
with service business owners.
584
:They're like sitting around
twiddling their thumbs.
585
:They're like, I don't have enough clients.
586
:And I'm like, what are you doing about it?
587
:Like, you know, business is not magic.
588
:It comes down to some very
fundamental strategic things that
589
:I talk about something in the
book called The Strategy Stack.
590
:So, you know, really going
through what are the problems,
591
:what is your positioning?
592
:What are your packages?
593
:What are, you know, your
promotional marketing strategy?
594
:What is your pricing?
595
:All of those things have
to be working together.
596
:And if you are not able to make
sales or you're just not even getting
597
:any interest, you need to go back
to the very beginning and start
598
:to figure out why aren't working.
599
:And a lot of times it comes
down to a lack of specificity.
600
:Everyone wants to be for everyone,
and that's not how it works.
601
:The more specific you can get, the better.
602
:I saw this when I went from, you know,
working with solo business owners to
603
:micro business owners, to micro agency
owners and solo service business owners.
604
:Many creatives and consultants,
people are scared to do that.
605
:But the more specific you can be to
call those people in, the better it
606
:gets because people go, oh, that's me.
607
:Yes, I have that problem.
608
:Let me
609
:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
610
:Yeah, that's a really great point.,
611
:I find that when I get more specific,
not only in like niching down, uh,
612
:if you wanna call it that, but in
the transformation a specific offer
613
:provides is also incredibly helpful.
614
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,
I'm, oh, I could talk about that one
615
:all day because it, like, people will
be like, what they do is they focus
616
:on like, you're gonna get a report.
617
:Well, what is the report gonna do with me?
618
:Like, what is the promise of that report?
619
:What is the specifics of what that's
going to for do for me in my business?
620
:Um, we, we wanna talk about
deliverables, but like.
621
:What is this actually
doing for your end client?
622
:Like if you're working with a veterinary
clinic, does it mean they're gonna get
623
:more inbound leads in their website?
624
:'cause your web site desire,
and that means more clients
625
:coming through the door.
626
:We wanna be like, you get a new
website, and it's like, no, no, no.
627
:It's much
628
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
629
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
People don't pay for that stuff.
630
:They want the end result that solves the
631
:Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.
632
:Yeah, for sure.
633
:And you have a private podcast
that people can listen to as well.
634
:Can you tell us a little bit about that?
635
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah, so I
did this podcast, it's called Staying Solo
636
:Stories as a companion to the book because
I share some stories in the book, and one
637
:of the pieces of feedback I got with my
early readers is they were like, I wanna
638
:know more about these people and what
they're doing, their business and like.
639
:We're all really nosy, like we
love a good behind the scenes.
640
:So, uh, I interviewed
seven different clients.
641
:I share, uh, part of my clients
and friends, and I also share
642
:part of my backstory of like
how I started my business and,
643
:you know, where I got to today.
644
:I don't really talk about those
stories on my main podcasting solos.
645
:So staying solo stories is
really a way to jump into that.
646
:And if you wanna check that?
647
:out, you can go to bs
free business.com/sydney.
648
:Because we wanna make it really simple
because we know you're listening to a
649
:podcast and I hate that like slash dot
650
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
651
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): dot.
652
:And if you wanna also check out my main
podcast, you can go to just Sting Solo
653
:and it's all the places this podcast is.
654
:Sydney (she/her): Perfect.
655
:I'm definitely gonna check that out
because I do love that you like included
656
:all of those people and I in your book.
657
:And I also am very nosy, so
yes, excited to listen to that.
658
:But um, thank you so much for coming
on and sharing all of your insights.
659
:I found it really helpful.
660
:And I'm also gonna include a link for
your book in the show notes because
661
:it's probably one of my favorites.
662
:I highly recommend that everyone read it.
663
:It's so good.
664
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
Yeah, and it's a really good.
665
:introduction to my work because as I
always say to people like, you know,
666
:the name of my company is BS Free
Business, so I am a little sweary
667
:and I'm very like direct, and that
is either for you or not for you.
668
:So it's a low risk way to
get to know me a little
669
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
670
:And there's just so much good
information in there and I love that.
671
:I feel like a lot of what I see.
672
:About business right now is just like
based on vibes, but you have like
673
:all the research and the statistics
and the data to back everything
674
:up and it just makes me so happy.
675
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Thank you.
676
:That was like three chapters
of like setting up my
677
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
678
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): and
that's when people were like, what
679
:was the hard part of the book?
680
:I'm like, that, that took me
681
:Sydney (she/her): Yeah.
682
:It was well worth it.
683
:Yeah.
684
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her): you.
685
:Sydney (she/her): So yes, I will have the
links for everything in the show notes.
686
:And again, thank you so much
for coming on to talk to me.
687
:Maggie Patterson (She/Her):
Thanks so much Sydney.
